Funding Your Next Deal

Ray Ray Hicks [0:00] All right, guys, we're gonna go ahead and get started. I know most of you still talking, so I will find you. I will find you. All right, so welcome to AVLmeetup. We have a super exciting panel tonight, so thank you so much for coming. As we always do, we do our best to honor our agenda. So we're gonna run through this. So, as you know, we bring together the movers and shakers in Asheville Real Estate. Every month, we bring everyone together. So if I have not met you yet, hello. My name is Ray Ray Hicks, I am glad you are here, and thank you for coming tonight.

We are about the net profit philosophy, and we cover this every time, because it's just that important, and it's everything that we do. So everything that we do is focused around this philosophy, so it's around networking, which you guys are clearly already awesome at, it is also around educating and transactions, and in all reality, if you reflect on your business, If you're doing something in those three areas, obviously, networking education transactions are done, but leading up to it, those two things play key pieces in your business success. So, we focus on those three. First is networking. So, as I take this poll, because tonight's topic is pretty awesome, right?

How to fund your next deal, I want us to take a look around the room, so that way you can see who is here and potentially get to that transaction. So, first, please raise your hand if you are a realtor in the room. All right. Lower than usual. All right, all right. Next, raise your hand if you're an investor. Love it. Look at all those. Look at you, young guys up here. Good job. All right, Anne, show me that money, honey. Who here is a lender? All right, look around, deep pockets, Do you pockets? Okay, we like it. All right, and service provider. Raise your hand for your service provider. So take a look at those hands. You're gonna want to find them later.

What service do they provide, and do you need it? And next, we have N reps. So that is a non real estate professional. So raise your hand if you are just here, 'cause it's awesome. And you want a network? You want to learn or start investing? Awesome, awesome. Okay, and next, education. So, we have spent, as you see, down here, over 4,500 hours educating the community. So, we have done summits, we do this monthly, we have expert panels, so next, we're gonna get our arm work out tonight. Raise your hand if you've learned something, at one of our summits, our meetings, our panels. awesome. Okay, good, good. And after that, of course, transaction.

So we want to build a road, pave a road that you can get to, to get to a transaction. So raise your hand if you've done and deal with an AVL member. I love it, I love it. Actually, just had one, for the most part, close with someone here, too, so, yes, yes. All right. So next, did you know about our matchmaking? It's been a little bit since we've talked about this. So there's actually a way that you can get match, make, match, meet a match here, while you're here. So when you log in, if you're logged in, you can go to deal matchmaker, right? It'll walk you through there. What are you looking to do? Buy, sell, or borrow? And then we'll actually match you up to someone else.

That's looking to give you what you're looking for. So please fill out your profiles, definitely by the next time, because the catch is, it only works during our meetups. So if you don't have your profile filled out. Definitely get that done, because when you're here in the room, you actually can get matched up, again, with someone that's got what you want, or maybe you got what they want. So let us help you with that transaction and match you up. And the easiest way to live out the networking education and transactions, philosophy with us, is to volunteer. Yes, we're always looking for quality volunteers.

So, speaking of, let's give a huge rendezvous pause where I volunteers tonight at the front, holding it down. Whoo! Thank you, thank you. So, if you'd like to become a volunteer, It's a good opportunity. One for you to get up there, network as people come in the door. Introduce yourself. Help us get some of that survey data that we talk about. We would love to have you, and if that's not your thing, there's also other things that we can have you do. So to do that, all you have to do is hop on to our website. If you're logged in, there's the little man there. Click him, volunteer, you can choose what you'd like to do.

So if talking necessarily isn't your thing, which it should be your thing, but if it's not, we will still take you. We will still take you, so we can definitely use your help to set up, tear down, so on, and so forth. So, for the table topics, the first thing, or the group near you, that we'd like you to do is share your real estate investor stats. So whether you haven't done your first deal yet, and you're just starting, or you're experienced, or you're a savant. This is a great opportunity to get to know some of the other people around you, and how you can help them, or how they can help you. And then also, what are your goals, right?

So if we don't have a goal in place, we can't start walking towards that. So with a group near you, please talk about your stats and your goals, all right? Thanks, guys. Five minutes.

Zac Ruiz [5:08] All right, so we're gonna do the thing where you guys come back quickly and respectfully. It's a very fun game. So in order to start that game, we're gonna say, if everyone can raise your hand, we're gonna do this thing. Who in the room has done at least one deal as an investor? Anyone? Nice. Hey, that's a good chunk of the room. Who has done five or more deals as an investor? Oh, ho. All right? This side of the room is cool. All right, who's done 10 or more? We got some speakers raising their hands. That's gonna be cool. Who's done 50 or more? This... All right, we got one speaker with her hand raised for 50 or more. We're gonna drop some knowledge bombs on you guys tonight, all right?

Um, which was Nancy, by the way. So, my name is Zachary Ruiz. I run this thing called the Rory's report that does real estate data, essentially. And usually you come here, and I give you a breakdown of the markets to tell you what's going on. But this month, you're gonna go to the Ruseport.com, at the top, hit latest reports, and you can get the report and read all the information, 'cause instead, in honor of the how to fund your next deal, I'm gonna do a rundown of the hard money loan that I did. All right? So, this talk could just as easily be called Zach's love story with Alfie Loans and 2020 builders.

And, uh, that's gonna make sense in a second here, as you hear how they sweeped up after all my mistakes. So here's an outline of what's gonna happen for the night, all right? First, we're gonna start from first principles. We're gonna define what is a hard money loan. Then we're gonna talk about how to qualify for a hard money loan, how a hard money loan works, and finally, nine lessons learned with a relevant emoji. All right, so, what is a hard money loan? Anybody? There's no... there's no way nobody knows that. Private loan? One, I heard expensive money, which was funny, but, um, all right, so, basically, look, a hard money loan, excuse me, is a type of short term key point, right?

Asset based loan, typically used for real estate transactions, and you'll see that the red asset based loan is the important part, right? The loan is secured by the property itself. There's something hard. There's a hard money loan, right? Rather than the borrower's credit worthiness, which is, like, what your credit card and that type of stuff is about, right? So pretty easy. Bang that one out. So now, how to qualify for a hard money loan, but specifically with Alfie. So if you go to AlfieLoan.com, they have this pretty laid out, but I'm gonna break it down even easier for the presentation, right? So their basic qualifications is, well, you gotta be able to pay them back. That's pretty good.

Credit check, if it's your first time, 'cause they're relationship based. Personal financial statement, if it's your first time, just to make sure, you know, you can do this thing, sufficient real estate expert experience, and you'll notice I have sufficient in quotes, 'cause somehow I slid in there. So it's their judgment, right? First position only, no second position loans, hold up. What? Our first and second position loans. All right? Ricky Bobby's right in this one. If you ain't first, you're last in this respect. So a first position loan means they have the first lien on the property, so now we need a definition within our definition. It's like a Russian nesting doll. Right?

A first lien gives the lender priority over other creditors in the event of a foreclosure, or sale the property, right? So if something happens, they get paid first. Right? Alfie doesn't permit other lenders to take second lien positions, right? Which would mean that those lenders get paid after third lien, et cetera, right? That's how that works. Right? So essentially, Alfie wants to be the primary and only creditor with the claim on the property, fun plug for Alfie, if you want to be one of their investors, that's good business. Right? That means you have the highest odds of being paid back in every scenario. All right, so, finally, it cannot be your primary residence, right?

So this is for asset based lending. If you're in an LLC. It's not to build your home, unfortunately. This is for investors. Right? So far, so good. We're tracking, everybody. Chron gave me a thumbs up. No, he said no. Man. All right, I failed you. But we're gonna continue anyways. So how does a hard money loan work? All right, now sub points, right? First, you got to own the land. Second, we'll talk about how much money you get. Third, how much money you'll owe? And make, right? The fun part. So let's go over. You gotta own the land, right? It's kind of spelled out right here. They're the first position. You can't already own money. So you got to own this thing out right.

So that's another really quick, easy point. So how much you'll get? All right. We're gonna go back to their website. We're gonna go off their own words, all right? Alfie's max loan amount is 65% LTV based on the BPO value. Some of you might be reading that as such, right? So, uh, LTV, anybody? Lower value. Yes. Loan to value. All right, BPO? Broker Broker price opinion, the real estate trainer herself, uh, is chiming in with all the acronyms. All right, so look, BPO, times 6.5%, 65, right? up two, up two. That comes back to our story. is your loan amount. So let's say you want to sell this thing for $389?

65% of that, that's how much money they'll lend you, more or less, but that's important, right? So, now we're gonna go over how much you'll owe, and how much you'll make. So this is, again, on Alfie's website. They have a loan calculator. They spell it out for you. If I could figure it out, you could figure it out, all right? So we're gonna read a word for word. So the worksheet assumes nine month construction period, so that means from breaking ground to done, nine months, right, and selling it, with seven equal draws. That will come back. Uh, and a two month hold period with the full loan amount draw, right? So they break it down for you, and then they tell you the total cost.

So what does that mean? Your takeaway here, when you plug in the numbers, you will need to have at least an additional for this loan, 21 grand more or less available, to service the debt, right? They charge on what's been drawn, what's already been issued, and you gotta fund that. Right? So, you're looking like an extra 21 grand in your account to do this responsibly. Right? Now the fun stuff. How much will you make? I like this one. All right? So let's talk about the business side of the business. All right? $3,89, or $389,000 sale price, right? Now, the cost to build our little asterisks there, we're gonna say it costs exactly as much as they charged you, all right?

So your cost to build was that. You bought a lot somewhere in around Asheville, you're looking at 85 grand more or less, right? The realtor fees, 6% in this scenario. Uh, your debt service, which we just talked about in at around 21 grand. Who's ready? Are you guys ready? Whoa, whoa, you took on a lot of risk. And you got 6,3067 bucks before taxes. All right? So, uh, maybe not the coolest game. totally fine. Totally. This is okay. All right? Uh, and now we go to the nine lessons learned. You remember this screen, right? Remember the screen? You remember this part. Lesson number one, the payments aren't always equal. All right? And they get progressively bigger. Like, a lot bigger, right?

Like, the first little thing is like, Oh, we're gonna tap into the sewer. It's a couple thousand dollars. You're like, Yay. And then they're like, Oh, the foundation, and the framing. It's, like, 30,000. Excuse me? And so, it gets bigger. Be prepared for that. We're gonna talk about that. Lesson number two. Sometimes you get more than you need, and in parentheses, want, all right? So, I ended up getting my degree in finance. I did math as well, mathematical sciences. I did investment banking for a little while, so I feel like I understand the time value of money. So on my first major draw, they gave me too much money.

And so, I was like, Hey, guys, you know, like, this amount of extra money doesn't matter, like, it doesn't. especially, like, even over the whole period of the loan. But I don't really know how this works. How does this work? Why did I get more money? Right? So look at this. So Jack, who couldn't make it tonight, who I was hoping to meet more in person, so he doesn't totally hate me. He goes, Hey, we gave you extra money. We're gonna give you that extra money back, right? So they refunded that money back, right? This email gets even funnier and more embarrassing in a minute. So they refunded me excess funds the first time I bothered them. Lesson number three, sometimes you don't get enough.

Does anyone know the problem with not getting enough money? Anybody? All right, look, you still owe the builder, right? So if you're using debt financing, and your debt doesn't fill the gap, my friends, that's on you, right? So remember, this screen, let's zoom in on this part, the at least part, the at least part. You need at least that much more money, plan for more, right? Because I got hit with a $32,000 difference one day. And I was like, Guys, not cool. Like, what did I do wrong? Right? I had to learn lesson four. The budget and payment timing is serious, all right? Super, super serious. Like, you don't want to get caught on the wrong side of it.

That's Dave Ramsey laughing at me because my budget, I didn't take it serious enough. I was like, Ah, don't cost what it costs. I got this, right? So, look, this is when you apply to Alfie, you give them a budget, and so you're like, Things cost this much. We're good. Well, there's an extra key to that, right? And it's the draw schedule. So when you say, Hey, I need money 'cause you got a bill, Alfie's gonna come out and inspect. And based on what's done, you're gonna get money. Well, sometimes, the builder needs to pay people before things are done. And that means you need to pay people before things are done. So you should know about that. That's a great lesson, right?

Draw is based on work complete. So here's a fun question. In your budget, you budgeted $10,000 for HVAC. It costs $15,000. Alfie in this case comes out, sees that the HVAC is done. How much money do you get? That's how much money you get. So Zach's on the hook for five grand in that situation. All right, so part four continued. Do your best to get an accurate budget, so work with your builders and everything, but then understand payment versus draw timing. So it turns out, the story ends well. You catch up a little bit later, but you gotta make your bills. So you have to have a little excess line around to make sure you make your bills.

And that's on you, and that's part of their credit check, and their financial statements, and everything, right? And then once you've proven you're good, you're good. So lesson five, the most important part about the whole deal is relationships. So, look, Alfie did not have to refund the excess money, and they for sure had a good laugh. Craig's standing there. If you read that email, he was like, This guy wants money, right? They laughed at that. There's no way they didn't, right? But they did it anyways, 'cause they're a relationship base, and they're working on that, all right? 2020 builders, who I built the house with, they ended up working with me for future draws.

So that day, I paid them the money, right? Blessed, prayed like that, like, basically prepared for that to happen. But then I went to them, I was like, Guys, my wife is many one months pregnant. I don't have many $32,000 excesses lying around. What do we do here? And they were, and they were probably laughing that, like, what are you, you didn't think this was gonna happen? No. But now I know, right? So they ended up working with me, relationship based, right? And then, if 2020 builders hadn't stepped up, It turns out, back to that up to 65%, I didn't take up to 65%.

So Alfie was literally ready to save me with a refi, to make sure I had some, like, excess money to cover this, 'cause I was like, I don't know if these numbers add up. We might be in trouble here. And they did that. Pure relationship based, right? So lesson number six and seven kind of go together. You make your money when you're by, you've heard this, obviously, right? And always negotiate. So let's tie this in. Remember this screen? That whole chunk, including the gray part, because it's related to your build cost, right? That's 94.5% of the deal's cost, that can be negotiated. Right? Just to look at it again, you can negotiate with your realtors, friends.

You can negotiate when you buy the lot. You can negotiate with the builder on how much it costs, and that affects your loan. So, the whole thing can be negotiated, right? It behooves you to negotiate this. So this is the house I built, the gentleman living in, it is standing right there, hilariously enough. So, look, I made more than six grand, thankfully, which goes to lesson eight. The most important part of your deal is your relationships. All right, so you remember the screen? I made more. I'm good at this, right? This is a better way to say it, right? I made more, thanks to my relationships, so let's go over them.

Rodrigo, who is somewhere here, the co host, he's at the back there, you'll see him asking questions. He coached me when I acquired the property, right, to make sure I could get it to, like, set it up for the future to do these things. Weep back till you make your money when you buy it. We built in multiple exit strategies when I acquired it. I could have sold the lot, just flat out, and made comparable money. We structured the deals so that there were more extra strategies. I advise you to do that. 2020's business model leverages an extremely competitive dollar per square foot build. I didn't start that company. I don't hire those people.

I had a great partner thanks to that relationship, right? Alfie wasn't just a lender. They were also a coaching partner. They gave me all sorts of fun tips along the way. Side note, all good lenders are that way. They want to be seen as your partner. So if you're interviewing different lenders, you make sure that they're vested in this deal, that they want to help you, and they might say no, like, you know what? It's not that great of a deal. Good lender. Lesson number nine. There's only one way to get better at the game. Does anyone know that way? You get in the game. All right, so from that, we're gonna move to the table question, all right?

What relationships are you missing to get in the game? And who here tonight can make that connection for you? You saw the hands raised. Who can make that, all right? 10 minutes, then the panel's coming back. Please come back, just as quickly and respectfully. See you in 10 minutes. All right, all right, all right. Our illustrious guests are on stage. Okay, so... Our first question is kind of a segue from the presentation about, you know, there's more to a deal, right? There's a lot of components, relationship being one of them. So I guess, Matt, we'll start with you. Matt, who is a repeat speaker, spoke many moons ago, many moons ago, and one of our very first meetups, is now...

We're gonna do quick introductions. Matt, if you could start with yourself, please.

Mitch Davidson [19:49] Oh, tell myself? Yeah.

Matt McMaster [19:51] Yeah, my name's Matt McMaster. I own a company here. We've probably done 100, 120 fix and flips, specs and owned a bunch of rentals. That's better. I'm old.

Unknown [20:07] And I lend money. Mitch?

Mitch Davidson [20:12] I'm kind of not old. And, um, I lend money. I work for movement mortgage. I'm a loan officer, and I do some investing on the side, as well.

Zac Ruiz [20:24] Everybody's in the game. Nancy, you've done a deal or two yourself. right? I've got what? You've done a deal or two yourself. A deal. Yeah, so everybody here is in the game. So kind of segueing, like I was saying, uh, we'll go with question one. Matt will start with you, and then we're gonna end up zigzagging, all right? So everyone starting out, thinks that getting funding for the deal is the hardest part. But the pros know that you can get funding for any deal provided it has a few key components. In your opinion, what would you say those components are?

Matt McMaster [20:53] Yeah, the biggest one is it's a deal that works, so that means it has a lot of equity. And once you figure that part out, the money will find you, or somebody in this room, just ask, you can get it funded. There's never no one ever has a shortage of funding for an actual deal. The only ones that don't get funded are not deals.

Zac Ruiz [21:16] If everyone agrees, does anyone want to elaborate on what makes a deal?

Nancy Duggan [21:20] One caveat. You need to match your loan needs with your lender. So the type alone that you look for, it's futile for you to be looking at a hard money lender, for example, if you want to DSCR loan. So match your lender up.

Unknown [21:39] Mitch?

Mitch Davidson [21:41] I would say perseverance. Yeah. Uh, doggedness, I mean, because, uh, if you're coming for more traditional financing, you know, we're focused more on your credit score, capital, those kind of things, um, as opposed to, you know, your business plan.

Zac Ruiz [21:58] You know, that's actually a great point. So, not to call Matt out, actually, to compliment you and your business model, you would come to see that lot, and you were like, Oh, for the type of house I build, if we were partnering here, there's, like, not enough equity in this deal for me to participate. Someone else had said something similar. I tried twice, and the third time was the charm, and it worked out fabulously for me, but, you know, continuing, not taking no for an answer, basically, finding the right person, like you were saying, that matches your needs. Perfect.

Matt McMaster [22:26] I think I told you to call the builder that built it. Indeed.

Zac Ruiz [22:29] Yes. All right, well, Mitch, we'll start with you on this one is, uh, are there any specific factors that you consider when you're kind of trying to figure out what is the right funding, kind of off of Nancy's point, is, like, know what type of loan product you need? How do you, what questions would you ask for yourself or what questions would you ask a potential borrow to make sure that they're, you know, applying for the right product?

Mitch Davidson [22:52] I mean, first of all, how long do you need the money? You know, if you're doing a flip or you're doing a build or something, we're not really the best resource for you, if you want to hold something for a couple years or so, then, sure, look at traditional, or, I guess, what I'd say, institutional money, like DSER, or something like that. But, um, that would be the first point I would think about as far as, like, what, you know, how long do you want to have that money for? Nancy, how about on your end?

Nancy Duggan [23:24] I don't really have anything to add. My money is short term money for the most part. And I have had people hold it three and four years, but my goal for everybody is to get rid of me as fast as they can. My money is meant to bridge a gap. And it's a little more expensive because of that. It's a niche.

Zac Ruiz [23:43] And, Matt, how about for yourself from a borrowing perspective? Anything to add to film the gaps, sir?

Matt McMaster [23:49] As far as what I would look for. Yeah.

Zac Ruiz [23:52] How do you decide what's the product you're looking for? Is it just length, or is there anything else that comes into consideration?

Matt McMaster [23:57] No, it's the, um, uh, a lot of it's the exit strategy. So, typically, it's all short term money for the fix and flips and the builds. And then, uh, always take it out with some sort of permanent financing if I want to keep it. So that goes into the planning of, you know, making sure that they'll align when the time comes to an end. So.

Zac Ruiz [24:19] Awesome. So, Matt, we'll start with you and go back. How do you approach vetting a new lender, borrower, so lender in your case, I think, right? To ensure a successful partnership, are there any red flags you watch out for?

Matt McMaster [24:30] A big thing for me is local. Um, Asheville's market's very unique, compared to, say, like, a Charlotte, where there's a thousand homes in the same subdivision that all look the same, and all comp the same. And Asheville, as all of you know, one street over, there's a million dollar house, and then there's a $250,000 double wide, and then there's a single family 21. So what I found is, if you can find somebody who's local and knows the market, Personally, that's been my best success.

The worst issues I've ever come to, early in my career, were out of market lenders who claim to be hard money, or private lenders, but did traditional appraisals, and stuff like that, and just didn't have a feel for what our market is. That's great.

Unknown [25:17] Ms. Nancy.

Nancy Duggan [25:18] And our approach is a little unusual, so I have to give a caveat, um, with hard money loans, it's very subject to the lender and what the lender looks for. So I can only speak for how we do it, not the other 101,000 private money lenders there are out there. We don't much care about anything but collateral. And we do like to mentor people. We know buildings. We've been in the business 50 odd years.

We're pretty good at evaluating somebody's deal, if they bring us an appropriate amount of information, and we can decide for ourselves, if that is collateral, if we would have to recover that property, if that collateral is something we would, A, want to have, and B, if it would be worth it to us to take it back and do something with it. And we don't ever want to have to do that. We actually never have foreclosed in all these years. We've come close to feeling like we might need to, but we've never had to. That's pretty much it. I don't do credit checks. And I'm not gonna tell you what my red flags are, because... You know?

Mitch Davidson [26:36] That's a great response. She needs to like you.

Nancy Duggan [26:41] Oh, yeah, he's right. I do have to like you. That's a big criteria.

Mitch Davidson [26:48] How about for you, Mitch? For us, it's a little bit... is very objective, and I would say the benefit of that is it's predictable. So, you know, if we're talking about a conventional loan, a DSCR loan, those kind of things. Um... I mean, personally, like, if somebody evaluated you, they might go, You're gonna be a disaster as an investor. You have no way. Like, you don't have the skills for it in our world. If you have the credit score, if the income numbers work, if you have the assets, it's a deal. So, you know, we really actually can't get into those kind of personal issues.

Obviously, if it was my personal money, you know, I'd be focusing on those things a little bit more, like, do I like you, but we can't.

Zac Ruiz [27:34] So, kind of a follow up on that. When you do your things, like, on the investor side, knowing the inside of the beast, so to speak, right? Of, like, the more conventional institutional money, do you have red flags for lenders, or do you have flipping it on the other side? Uh, I'm not sure... Like, if you're gonna borrow money, I think, is what Zach's asking. Since you got to experience from conventional and otherwise, is there any red flags that you look for, if you're looking for private money or hard money?

Mitch Davidson [28:06] I can't think of anything in there. moving on.

Zac Ruiz [28:09] All right, so a little backstory. One of the reasons this question on here is like how important the relationship is between the borrower and the lender. So Mitch comment as much as you want, but like the 1st house I ever bought, borrowed money from somebody partnered with a GC, 3 months into the deal, the GC calls me, he's like, I don't like this house anymore. I think we should walk away and let the lender foreclose on it. We can try again. And, you know, this is, like, very much a Nancy style loan. It wasn't with Nancy, but it was very relationship heavy on my end. And having that relationship, being able to call the lender and be like, This is happening. I don't know what's going on.

Like, I need some guidance, and just being able to walk through ended up being a great deal. But that's why that relationship's important. Do you guys have maybe some stores similar to that, where a relationship has made or break the deal? You know, Zach went, my turn. More stories of why those relationships really matter. We'll start with you, Matt.

Matt McMaster [29:05] Yeah, um, for me, the one that always comes to mind is, back when I first started, about, probably three years in, there was a deal I was looking at, and I was actually using Alfie at the time, and they told me, they're like, We'll lend you the money 'cause you've always paid us, and we're not worried about you, but we don't like how this looks. We don't like the struct, we don't, you know, they just named all these things to me, that I just didn't see, 'cause sometimes when you're in this game, you're just hunting the next deal, and you get focused on, I gotta fill the pipeline. I got to do this.

And so to have that check there, that partner who's literally your partner, say, You know, I don't love this, it means a lot, and you can go a long way.

Unknown [29:47] Nancy?

Nancy Duggan [29:49] Yeah, um, we do get deeply into the nuts and bolts of people's deals, and we do it before they make their buy. Sometimes they don't listen if it's not a good deal, and they can go someplace else and do it. But our goal is for people to have a win. And so, we look at a deal from upside down, and we're contractors and in the trades, and we don't do that kind of work for other people, but we will provide that oversight, and that is our pleasure, especially with beginners, with young people. That's kind of where we are, right? is having that matter, as much as the money end of it. The money's easy. It's easy to find money.

It is very important to land right with your money and use your money wisely and protect yourself while you're doing it, and keep your money in the end.

Zac Ruiz [30:47] So if I could just jump in real quick to, kind of, like, read between the lines here. At the beginning, we're saying, one of the key components. It's easy to find money, all this stuff. You're saying you would appreciate if people approached you before they bought it.

Nancy Duggan [31:00] Sometimes they already have a property. Sometimes the plan that they have for the property, for which they need the money, isn't maybe the best use. Maybe they haven't thought it completely through. Maybe there's things that we see, like Matt said, Alfie saw for him. We're not in the business of forcing people to do things, but we do have alongside a lot of years of experience. And our goal is to make it work for people not to make it hard for people.

Zac Ruiz [31:33] So for everyone in the audience, develop the relationship before you hunt even, right? That'll help you close on those deals. Mitch, I know, obviously, it's a little unique for you from a conventional standpoint, but I'm assuming that some sort of level of relationship helps, or reoccurring borrowers or anything like that, and maybe that's an incorrect assumption that... Yeah, I mean, it might...

Mitch Davidson [31:55] It might be more critical than your relationship with your realtor. Um, I mean, we we certainly, like any lender, loan officers in the room have, we've rescued people this year. Um, from, you know, they start shopping. They're already under contract or something like that. We're all hungry for deals, including agents, so maybe they've being showed properties without a preapproval letter. And then we're called in to try to make it work. And, um, if they've already had a preapproval, and we have to save it. There's usually a common thread that that person was, for one, they didn't get pre approved in advance. And if they did, they were probably very hyper focused on having the lowest rate.

Um, instead of focusing on the rate, the relationship should be the focus. so that you're getting the education, so that you're getting the communication, you're getting the responses, you know, on the weekend or when, you know, when you're having an anxious moment. Because, I mean, your agent can be there for you in those anxious moments, but they can only answer some of the questions, right? Some of the other questions are to us. And if we're not relationship focused, We're gonna tell you, I'll be back in the office after 9:00 on Monday. And you can set up a call, and meanwhile, you miss asleep over the weekend and wonder if this deal is gonna fall apart.

So, um, I had a super bad personal experience, that's part of the reason I got into lending. Um, with a loan officer who was not responsive and, um, it caused me a ton of anxiety. So, I think the relationship is absolutely critical.

Zac Ruiz [33:31] Awesome. So actually, sticking with you mentioned kind of on the same thing. For your experience, 'cause you've seen a lot alone, and at least a lot of rescues this year, right? Sounds like what's the most commonly overlooked detail in the lending or borrowing process in real estate investing?

Mitch Davidson [33:47] Like, you kind of... I would say their income? For traditional financing, and I would guess if we're talking about investment properties, we're talking about conventional. With DSCR, we don't really care about your personal income. So with conventional, it would be the finer points of your income. There's been a lot of challenges in our industry in the last year and a half on that topic, so, um, we do see time to time where borrowers were preapproving them, and they're like, Man, you're torturing me for a lot of documents about my income, or that other person didn't ask me for those paystubs or whatever. And we're like... Yeah, I'm trying to avoid you having a hazardous situation.

So that would be it for me.

Zac Ruiz [34:30] Do you mind, uh, giving an example of two or the finer points of people's income? Last month, we talked about debt to income ratio, and a couple lenders came up saying, Hey, you know, you can actually, you know, it's not a hard limit. You can get more to count essentially. What would some finer points of what income?

Mitch Davidson [34:47] The biggest issue for us? is variable income lately. So we will have people that are pre approved, and not too long ago. We could just look at your year to date and kind of use that. But if your pay varies, Say you're a nurse, or sometimes it's very highly paid people, and their year to date average is less than what the average should be based on their salary. All kinds of weird rules apply. Some complex rules regarding your commission, bonus pay. People like us that are full commission. It's tricky. So, um, yeah, you can't be gung ho about it. You can't be uncareful. We have some people sometimes where their pay has declined this year. And we can't use any of their income.

Yeah, they're still making a lot of money. So, um, that would be a detail to focus on tremendously is your qualifying income.

Zac Ruiz [35:41] So, Nancy, what do you see as the most overlooked detail from people that come to you?

Nancy Duggan [35:47] Well, those of you in this room that know me probably know what I'm going to answer, and it really doesn't have to do with asking for money or getting money. It has to do with keeping your money in the end. And so I always want to know somebody's tax strategy. I want to know what their end game is. I want to know what it's gonna cost them, and, you know, when somebody bounds up to me and says, Oh, I made $9,000 on this deal, my internal question is, Yeah, how much of it did you get to keep?

So, I like to work with people, you know, with a broad picture about getting in right, handling it right while you're doing it, and your endgame strategy, so you can keep as much of it as possible for living on or reinvesting. So, taxes.

Zac Ruiz [36:35] You want to share your favorite tax tip?

Nancy Duggan [36:37] My favorite tax tip, don't pay them.

Zac Ruiz [36:42] Well, we'll scratch that from the recording, don't worry.

Nancy Duggan [36:46] We pay taxes that we all have to pay taxes. We all don't have to pay as many taxes as we often pay. If you don't know that, you're gonna pay what they want you to pay, or you're not gonna set your structure up correctly, so that when you do sell, you end up owing a whole lot more legitimately, than you would, if you've just done a few steps in between. That's all I'm talking about. Love it.

Unknown [37:12] Mr. McMaster.

Zac Ruiz [37:17] So you're kind of on the other side. Like, what have you been burned by? And you're like, That won't happen again. Any lenders who, uh, didn't fund a deal that you were expecting to close? Anything like?

Matt McMaster [37:27] No, so I looked at this question. I don't have much for it, 'cause I've had really fantastic experiences, and that, I'll tell you, that comes from meeting people in rooms like this, and I can see some of them in here, actually, and, like, having that, like I said earlier, that local personal relationship. It's a lot easier to screw somebody over when you live in California, and I'm here than it is when I see you at meet up every month, so...

Unknown [37:52] Fair.

Zac Ruiz [37:53] Yeah, I'll just, I'll say that from a borrower's perspective, just thing to consider is make sure who, if you're working with an individual, that they have the ability to fund and fund on time, because, um, it's, it, you know, there's no guarantee that money's going to show up, and there's very little recourse if, uh, if you got a commitment that if it doesn't come through. So on that note, a lot of moving pieces in the real estate market. Are you approaching borrowing in any different ways now, Matt?

And then for Nancy and Mitch, the question will be the same, but from a lending perspective, are you guys doing anything different to, you know, navigate the conditions of the economy economy right now?

Matt McMaster [38:32] Yeah, so I typically would operate in half cash, half money. We run seven to nine deals at a time. And lately, I've been pulling construction loans on every deal, and maybe not drawing on it. Um, and I, no one hates paying points more than I do. And but I'm just sucking it up and paying the points just to have access to all that money if I need it. And I've gotten... burned, but I got myself into a situation a couple years ago when the market started to shift a little bit, where I was very cash heavy, and a couple deals didn't sell as quick as I thought, and it was just added a whole extra level of stress that was just unneeded.

So since then, I've kind of been really just borrowing more than I need, or having access to more than I need, just to make sure I can weather any storm that comes.

Zac Ruiz [39:29] Back to my Dave Ramsey Jiff. Dave would be proud.

Nancy Duggan [39:35] So, in good times, it's easy to make money in real estate when things get a little hinky or shades of gray start showing up. It's a little harder to know what to do. Um, so when times get a little tougher, we have to vet harder with the deal itself. Maybe you're gonna make a little less money than you would have five years ago. Are you gonna make money? Is, is, we want to watch your deal. We want to see if it's still gonna yield something. And you may have to just change tactics to make that yield happen. All of us. over the years do sidesteps when things change. When the slump started happening, um, in 8, 9, 10, some people call it a crash, I didn't really see it that way.

Um, it was easy to see that coming. And if you knew that it was coming, you knew you needed to change your tactics, that kind of no brainer buy and sell was what crashed. And so, one of the things we did was start putting our money internally into projects. We put on a lot of new roofs. We belt on a lot of sidelots. We added a lot of third bedrooms, and we stacked cash instead of investing in the market itself. And then when things leveled out down low, we bought like crazy. And we're still realizing the gains from that, because when you buy low, you can hold longer. So all you do is just shift your strategies, and I'll talk to you about that all day long. I don't want to bore you.

It's coming up.

Zac Ruiz [41:15] It's coming up. You'll get your chance.

Nancy Duggan [41:17] It's coming. Mr. Davidson.

Mitch Davidson [41:20] I mean, I don't, obviously, I don't own the company I work for, so, um, but, like any lender, we've had to get really lean, and, um, rates being, you know, above 6% has been kind of the new norm for two years, so people have gotten used to it. As far as investors and focus, you know, that type of business, at least for me, the focuses had been, had to be more on the appreciation opportunity, which, thankfully, we have abundance of in this market, because if it was just about cash flow, it would be really tough. Um, so, yeah.

Zac Ruiz [41:58] Awesome. So starting with you, going back, and this will be fun. I'm interested in this question. Could you share a story about one of the most interesting or creative deal structures you've been involved in, either as a lender or borrower? So you've all seen some good deal flow. Nancy's already excited, so...

Mitch Davidson [42:18] Yes. So I did a debt service credit ratio loan. For you those who don't know, DSCR means instead of us looking at your ability to pay for the loan, we're looking at the property's ability to pay for itself, so it's somewhat commercial, if you will. And this was a $2.3 million purchase in Sedona, Arizona. And, um, yeah, it was it was really complicated. We had to use short term rental income to qualify, which is abnormal for DSCR. Our air DNA estimate was too low. We had to go through, like, seven revisions with the appraiser, and, um, get an exception with the lender. Um, there was other issues as far as assets. My borrowers.

My borrower had his own assets, but some of them had to be liquidated, and his plan was really to have his partners send in money for the deal to his account after we stopped checking his bank accounts, which is really common. And, um, it closed in the end, but it was, uh, super stressful, and, um, yeah, it worked, but it was complicated.

Nancy Duggan [43:28] Yeah, I'm not gonna bore you with my deals. I can do that. Sit me down. I' talk all night. We love creative deal making, and the ones that I find the most interesting, have the most moving parts. So, imagine you find a property, and it has all kinds of potential. It has a house that needs fixed. It has a house that just needs a lick of paint. It has extra land around it. Maybe a mobile home over on the corner. We like to break those up, and either lend to other people, or when we're buying, use different entities partnering altogether.

So sometimes it could be Rodriguez's money, and an entity could be my C corporation, could be Roth Ira's, could be LLC's, a combination of those owned, or other people's, and how you structure that, that you have to structure it very carefully prior to the buy, and you make your buy, and then everybody or every entity has their peace. So let's say you sell the broken down house to a buddy as a wholesale deal, and get his foot in the door. Yes, slap the lipstick on the pig for the next little house, and you turn it over in a tax free environment, and you make a buck there.

And then you split the lots off, and you, or have split the lots off, you sell the lots off, or build on them, and you make your money there, and depending on the entity or the person, or whatever, and your tax strategy, you end up with the pieces of the pie going out in the, in the air that you chose them to go, not just happenstance. And I know that's confusing, but those are my favorite deals. Where it's all this big mishmash of mix and match. They're wonderful. Amazing.

Matt McMaster [45:39] Yeah, I've thought about this one for a second, 'cause, um, traditionally, what I do is pretty simple, hard money lending, but one deal I did stuck out, and if it's your first time, don't do this. Um, 'cause it's, like, you have to be ready if the... you have to be ready if the consequence, but I, um, as Rodriguez can tell you, I'm the world's worst wholesaler. I don't like wholesaling, I don't do it. But I found this great deal, and we didn't have enough room in our pipeline for it. But I knew as a money maker, so I found an end buyer. But as traditional banks won't pay the wholesale fee, you have to own it for so long. before the end buyer can finance it.

So I found a hard money lender, who didn't really have the money, but they had the money in their 401k. Well, you can pull the money from your 401k for 45 days with no penalty, or 30 days. 60, 60. So you can pull the money for 60 days with no penalty. So I got this person to pull the money out, fund the deal. I closed the deal. They funded it, then I sold it to the end buyer 35 days later, paid them a fee, and I made probably six times what I could have made wholesaling it. So, kind of a unique strategy to do it, worked for everybody. But if they don't close, you know, then you gotta figure some things out. So I'm saying, don't do it on your first one, but it's kind of a way to do something.

Zac Ruiz [47:04] You'd be paying a lot of points on that next funding that you'd be getting there to bridge that gap. All right, so, uh, in the interest of time, assuming there's questions, uh, well, if not, we'll go, we're gonna go lightning round, skip ahead a little bit. So, lightning round, keep it short for the answers. What's your one must read book for anyone interested in real estate investing? And Matt, we'll start with you. Unless you wanna go last. All right, Mitch?

Mitch Davidson [47:31] I don't read much. Uh, Rich, Dad, poor dad, I would say.

Unknown [47:36] Nancy? That's the one I would say.

Matt McMaster [47:40] Man, I read, like, men's trash novels like Jack Reacher and stuff. I love Jack. Yeah, I keep the, I keep the business to, uh, to articles of bigger pockets and stuff like that, but, yeah, so it's been a while. Fair enough.

Zac Ruiz [47:56] All right, redemption song. We'll start with Matt again, all right? If you could only invest in one type of real estate for the next decade what would it be?

Matt McMaster [48:03] A small, multifamily, like, duplex quad plex around Asheville.

Unknown [48:09] Land.

Mitch Davidson [48:14] Long term rental may be rent by the room.

Zac Ruiz [48:18] All right, Mitchell, we'll stay with you on this one. Will interest rates be higher or lower at this time next year? And maybe you can tell us what the interest rates are for today. Give or take.

Mitch Davidson [48:28] Lower. And I think I saw that the pretty real time average for 30 year mortgages, non investment properties is about 6.4 right now, so any guess on what that lower number will be, a year from today.

Zac Ruiz [48:42] Any guess on what the lower number might be a year from today? Just for fun.

Mitch Davidson [48:46] I will be recording or anything. So I would say six, maybe. I'm not too aggressive in that. Fancy? Higher or lower next year?

Nancy Duggan [48:57] Current trends being what they are, they're going to go down some. Um, barring politics, and world issues, and all the other effectors. I think they're going down.

Matt McMaster [49:12] Yeah, I think you'll see them going down, I think, for optics, you'll see, like, a five, nine, seven, or something upper there, just to get that back in front that stimulates some things.

Zac Ruiz [49:23] Right, and then we'll stay with you, Matt, going back the other way. Are you currently looking to borrow Lend or both? and current conditions.

Matt McMaster [49:32] Uh, always looking to borrow, yeah, always. Not lend right now.

Nancy Duggan [49:38] Stick with me, Matt. Perfect.

Unknown [49:43] Just lend. Just slend.

Zac Ruiz [49:46] Awesome. All right, so we're gonna open it up to audience Q and A. We left more time than usual, because we're assuming there's more questions than usual. Hopefully. Don't let us down. So, uh, whoever right there. All right, I'm gonna get this to you, and all you do is speak into the box, all right? I'm not left handed. So here we go.

Unknown [50:07] Oh, no.

Zac Ruiz [50:08] Barely right handed, it seems... Can you hear me? Yep. Nancy, I have a question for you. Yes'm? And who was it?

Mitch Davidson [50:17] Who was it? Is she still here? Okay. She referred to as the queen bee around here.

Nancy Duggan [50:24] I liked it being that.

Zac Ruiz [50:27] If you had to do it all over again, and you were just starting over. What would you do differently?

Nancy Duggan [50:36] Differently. Well, if it would be possible I'd start sooner, but I bought my first property over 50 years ago. And I really kind of blew it in a good way. I think a lot of you know this. I tried to buy a lot on an island in South Carolina. And I went to the closing table and I'd accidentally bought the whole island. So... maybe I would have had a better end game if I'd known that. I think I'd do it the way we've done it. I married the smartest man in the world, and that's been a real bonus. He's a brilliant deal maker.

Zac Ruiz [51:20] Smartest man in the world. Can we raise your hand, please? So we can thoroughly embarrass you? There you go. I'm the henchman. I have one more if it's okay. If you could give advice to someone who's brand new, what would your advice be to them?

Unknown [51:42] Is that for me?

Zac Ruiz [51:44] We're also gonna extend that to mention Matt.

Nancy Duggan [51:51] I'm not sure what I would tell you. It would be depending on what you wanted to do. I have a lot of new people come across my desk. I love them, and nearly everybody has enough wherewithal to do what they need to be doing in this business. It's not rocket science. If I can do it, anybody can, obviously. Um, I would tell people to prepare, and learn, and learn, and never quit. And I still come and sit in on every venue. I go to beginners' meetings. I go. I am a member of an organization called Krea. It's a big bang for the buck for education. I would suggest that to a beginner. Um, Rodriguez and, uh, Zach's meetup is a great place to meet like minded people and team up. But be smart.

Find the people that know what they're doing, and ask me if I don't know. I'm gonna say, Rodrigo does that, or Zach does that, or Matt does that. Yeah, ask. Ask. Thank you.

Matt McMaster [52:57] Matt, how about for yourself? Yeah, uh, look at as many properties as you can, and don't be scared of no. Um, no, doesn't matter. Um, 'cause this business is very tricky in the beginning, learning how to look at the numbers to assess a property. After you've done it so many times. You know, you can walk in and know, oh, it's gonna be 95,000, be within 5%. Um, so, uh, it's really a volume volume game in the beginning. And then find somebody that can, if not mentor you, you can bounce ideas off of who's done, not two deals, but, you know, 10 plus. May I try about yourself?

Mitch Davidson [53:39] Um, I think of two things. One is, it's always a good time to invest in real estate. It's just always, it's just a, you know, there's bad deals. It's never a good time to invest in a bad deal. But especially in a market like ours with appreciation being what it is. It's always a good time. The other point, I would say, is just beware of analysis, paralysis. I'm just a big advocate for learning as you go. Um, you know, we see so many people that are just paralyzed, um, who have listened to 100s of more bigger pockets, podcasts, and I can ever imagine and still haven't done anything. Like get out there, make mistakes. Write your own book. Learn.

Um, I think, you know, you wait too long, you're gonna spend a lot more for the property you would buy today, and, um, get educated, but don't let it hold you back, because you don't know everything.

Unknown [54:46] Thank you guys.

Zac Ruiz [54:48] All right, who's the next question? Raise your hand. Well throw that box around.

Unknown [54:54] Ooh.

Zac Ruiz [54:56] There we go. In the front. Good toss.

Mitch Davidson [55:00] I just. yep, okay. Talk out the box. So, I'm a builder, and I've mainly done custom homes, and lately I've been getting into specs, and right now, we're doing, like, a middle class spec home. Is there a way I should hold this? Hold it closer? Okay. But with companies like D.R. Horton and stuff coming into town. I feel like that's threatening the smaller builder to be able to do the middle class spec homes. Because if you were a custom builder or a mom and pops builder, you tend to kind of build things at a higher quality that D.R.

Horton's doing, but yet we're competing in the same price point, and one thing we've had in this market, that's boosting real estate is the lack of inventory, but they're going to correct that to a certain extent. And so another market, it would be like the luxury spec market, and that tends to be It's a newer market in this area, but we obviously have a lot of big money coming in. And we don't have inventory in that area. And there are people in the cliffs in the ramble that are finding a lot of success doing luxury spec markets. So I guess what are your guys' thoughts on that? on building to sell in the luxury market.

What are your comfort levels for lenders and I guess what would be your advice on that?

Matt McMaster [56:21] Are you talking a 1000000 plus? Million plus.

Zac Ruiz [56:24] Probably one.5 to two.

Matt McMaster [56:27] That's a... That's a tough spec market. So that buyer, a lot of knows exactly what they want, and are willing to pay one of the builders around here to do it. Um, not saying it doesn't work. Um, I found my most success is in the $550 million spec range. West Asheville, East Asheville, um, green built energy star, nice product. D.R. Horton's not an issue, if you build a quality house. If you, not that saying they don't, they're, for what they're doing, it's fine, but if you are a local builder using two by six walls, doing some of the extra steps, when people walk through the house, they're gonna see and feel a difference. And D.R.

Horton is more of a, they're not more, they are a track builder, so they're fixated on a neighborhood that's, you know, 50 homes, whereas I build one to two, the most I've ever subdivided is, like, five lots off of one. So, you know, there's much more desire to be in West Asheville or East Asheville, in certain neighborhoods, on one off lots, than there is to be, in a 60 home, new DH Horton community. So I personally do not look at them as a threat at all, or a competition at all, for the product that we build. The one 5 plus, I got a bunch of good information on that, if you want to chat afterwards. It's definitely a challenging spec market. And I've had some friends make money on it.

I had some friends get really burned. So it's, you have to be ready for, like, yeah, you can make a half million, but you can lose half a million. So you kind of have to be ready for that swing, which, it's a lot.

Zac Ruiz [58:17] The roller coaster. Anyone want to add anything, or?

Nancy Duggan [58:22] What Asheville really needs is the 350s. We need Middle Market. And my heart is with my heart is with workforce housing, and this is what we like to provide, and it still can be done in this market. I know when we first moved here decades ago, we trotted our little selves down. We had a 1,200 square foot house that we built many times, good house, hardwood floors, good solid three and two. And we built it for around $25,000. And that doesn't include labor, or anything like that, because that was our work product, that we put in. So we trotted down to the permitting department and asked for a $25,000 permit, and they laughed. And they said, You can't build anything around here for $25,000.

They made us buy, I think it was a 40 or $45,000 permit, which, of course, sounds wonderful these days, because you can't build a house for 45 now, but we took our $45,000 pyramid, and we built our $25,000 house. So don't tell me you can't cut under the market here and build a real high quality product and meet workforce housing and middle housing, which is what we need here, not the people that D.R. Horton is building for. And the people that are coming in at the high end, and I respect that you want to do that. I don't have a problem with it at all. My heart is not there. My heart is middle. and low income housing.

Zac Ruiz [1:00:04] On that note, as a reminder, we did actually move this meeting, it was gonna be on Tuesday, this upcoming Tuesday, but we did move it on purpose, so the city council meeting is Tuesday, so anybody who wanted to attend there could attend. Last month, we talked a lot about that missing middle piece, and the affordability around permitting, and, um, just kind of the, you know, hoops that have to be jumped through that are a pain from anybody who's built here. Um, and so, if that is, you know, there's a lot of clapping there, and cheers. It's like, if you really believe about it, you gotta show up for it.

So, look over at the neighbor who clapped and asked them if they're going, and if not, then ask them why they clapped. Very lovingly, but it's true, right? Like, it's just a reminder, like, nothing's gonna change if there's not any pressure for the people who are gonna legislate it. So...

Nancy Duggan [1:00:56] I think part of what Rodrigo is addressing is, it's, you can spend the same money on infrastructure to some degree, and water taps, and permits, and stuff, for the size, and price point of house that you're building. You spend the same amount of money on the smaller house, and therefore, it cuts, it cuts you off at the knees profit wise, and you do. That's why a lot of the bigger houses are being built here, and sold here, because it's a bigger bang for the buck, for the guy that's building it, and it makes sense on paper.

Mitch Davidson [1:01:30] Well, and that kind of segues into the storm water stuff that's been going on.

Nancy Duggan [1:01:34] The stormwater thing is a really big problem for developing... Yeah, slamming down, like, crazy. Especially raw land, and all of that is very problematic. And the panel that they had less month, and I hope most of you got to see, it was excellent information. Vadilla had... Vanilla works for the city. He did not have his city hat on. He could be tough working for the city. I've been on the other side of the table from him on issues. Um, but he had on his vadilla citizen hat, and his advice was, change it with the city. Take the steps with the city, come and talk to the city, make it more palatable, to build the smaller houses, or get them to let you put to on the lot.

where now they'll only let you put one, or let it, four on the lot. Cool.

Zac Ruiz [1:02:25] Well, we're going to move off of the development issue, and... Well, I am going to say one more thing. We are almost going to move off the development issue. Because I keep getting on this soapbox, right? But, like, vote in representatives who believe in this? Right? Like, that's a super important key, because if everyone agrees, and we keep voting the people who don't do anything, we're gonna continue to be here, right? So that's coming up this years, guys.

Mitch Davidson [1:02:47] Next Tuesday night's your chance to go speak up.

Zac Ruiz [1:02:50] Yep. Yep, yep. All right, I can move on. Funding question, number, whatever, we're on. Three, four. anybody? Anyone? There we go. Cool. Just toss that. Pass it back please. Nice. All right. Hello? Okay. The most assists in AVLmeetup history right there.

Mitch Davidson [1:03:10] Yeah, not bad. Um, hi. I have a question, this is kind of speculative, but in terms of borrowing money against assets, would any of you guys consider Bitcoin or cryptocurrency, especially as black rock, gray scale, just passed their ETFs? That's becoming a more realistic thing for the world. And Donald Trump even mentioned something about having a, what's it, reserve fund? For the U.S. government. Would you guys consider that a legitimate asset?

Unknown [1:03:44] If you liquidate it.

Zac Ruiz [1:03:47] That's a great answer.

Nancy Duggan [1:03:51] Borrow it from Donald.

Zac Ruiz [1:03:54] That was a great answer.

Mitch Davidson [1:04:01] I think the answer is no from at least... That's what I was expecting.

Zac Ruiz [1:04:06] But just a side note, like, there is probably somebody who'd be totally happy to lend on that, right? Like, lending is gonna become down to the lender understanding the asset, right? So if everybody's here is lending against real estate, their answer's gonna be no, but if there are gonna be people who lend against other different types of assets, whether it's commodities, art, et cetera. So, I would say, is, like, if you ask enough, and you knock on the right doors, you will find somebody who will learn for that, it's just gonna be making sure you find somebody who understands the product. Thank you. All right, friends, so we are committed to getting everyone out at 7:30 at 7:25.

Do we have a last question? Does anyone burning? Every, every meet up. Someone will come up to me and say, Ah, you know, I was gonna ask a question, but I didn't. Can you answer this? Are you that person tonight? All right. Going once. Going twice. Sold, you've all just bought five minutes back of your lights. If we can get a round of applause for the speakers, please. We do have one more thing for you. Don't worry about them. They get to do what they want. All right, so, look, next week, we have a Power House panel. right? We're doing hospitality in WNC, hidden by the chair. There is Katie Button from, uh, Currete and all the other things she does. We have Jocelyn Hun Seder.

I've sort of practice that. Jeter Martin Farms, Jeter Mountain Farm, excuse me, down in Hendersonville. And then Jordan Tershen from the Horseshoe Farm. So these are all three premier hospitality venues in WNC. We hope to see you next month, October first. Enjoy your nights. Thank you, guys. Hey, guys, Rodrigo here. Wanted to say thank you for taking the time to listen into this month's panel conversation. We hope that you join us in person at next month's meeting. You can find out more at AVLmeetup.com. We primarily meet on the 1st Tuesday of every month, but be sure to check out our website, AVLmeetup.com. You can also watch this conversation on YouTube at AVLmeetup.

Also, I have a quick announcement. We started a property management company called Vesta Property management. So if you're looking for 3rd party management for long-term rental, we'd love the opportunity to talk to you. Our goal at Vesta is to turn houses into homes and investments into returns. If you're looking to work with a 3rd party management company that will allow you to have peace of mind and experience freedom around rentals, reach out to us. can help make that happen for you. That's the PM.com. What's going on, everyone? Zach here to close it out before you sign off for the day.

If you liked the data driven portion of today's meetup, then I'd love to take a moment to tell you about the Ruiz Report and REMC.co. If you're a real estate professional, then you know that you should become the local economist of choice, but you're probably unsure of how to learn the skills required. That's where the Ruiz Report comes in. We offer customized marker reports to promote your business, training videos so you learn how to interpret the market data, and monthly quizzes to keep you sharp. Learn more at resreport.com and sign up for a free account to watch all of our training videos at no cost.

If you're more interested in the live data and some data and analytics dashboards, then I highly suggest you check out ramc.co. REMC.co is the 1st of its kind, data and analytics dashboards for the real estate industry. Now you have to be an active participating member of the MLS in order to sign up, but it is unparalleled data on every market participant, whether that's an office, a listing, or one of the realtors. Again, you can find out more about REMC.co at REMC.co. As always, thanks for listening, and we hope to see you at one of our next meetups.

If you can't make it and you still want to be part of the movers and shakers, then sign up for a free account at AVLmeetup.com and get yourself into our member directory. Thanks again. See you next month.